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IMPORTANT PLEASE READ This website and forum has been living on borrowed web server time for years. At the end of this month silsden.net in it's present form will cease to exist, BUT there is a new silsden.net in the making, and a new forum, and lots of exciting new things coming to this space. Peter |
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Author |
Topic : BELL SQUARE TRAFFIC LIGHTS ?????? |
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| Peter |
On the 23rd July 2015, funding was allocated by the Keighley Area Committee for a junction improvement scheme to be undertaken on Bolton Road (A6034) at it's junction with Bell Square, Silsden It is proposed to install Traffic Signals together with a pedestrian phase (red/green man) and an extension of the existing double yellow lines to protect one of the approaches. The scheme aims to decrease the amount of congestion when turning out of Bell Square onto Bolton Road and also reduce the number of road safety problems. Please see the drawing, No. R/HAM/103183/646B/TL-1A, which details the proposals. news.silsden.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/BellSquareTrafficLights_646B.pdf Should you wish to comment on these proposals, please contact me before the 15th April 2016. Bruce Andrews Senior Traffic Engineer Traffic & Highways (North) Tel: 01535 618199 Stockbridge Depot, Royd Ings Avenue, Keighley BD21 4BX City of Bradford Metropolitan District Council Department of Regeneration  MORE DETAIL... news.silsden.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/BellSquareTrafficLights_646B.pdf |
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| Landrover |
Just an opinion: if traffic were allowed to flow freely at an enforced 20 mph though SILSDEN, instead of bunching caused by parked cars, there would be no problem |
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| Peter |
this post has been edited 2 time(s) I think the question is.... Will this help or hinder traffic flow through Silsden, and if not what is an alternative solution for this junction? TAKE THE POLL https://www.wedgies.com/question/56fbf9ceab36431c007a029d |
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| old_miner |
Looks good to me. Controlled crossing will be useful at that spot. |
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| Landrover |
quoteI think the question is.... Will this help or hinder traffic flow through Silsden, and if not what is an alternative solution for this junction? Hinder |
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| dogcatcher |
poss a good thing but caused by drivers not looking were they are going and need a retest ,been coming and going out of that junction for 43 years + on a regtular basis never had as much as a horn blown at or by me '  '); |
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| Peter |
I think how you see this junction depends on the vehicle you drive, and I think there is a blind spot if you drive a car. If you drive a 4 x 4, being that much higher, the blind spot will not affect you. If the junction was treated as a STOP junction and not a GIVE WAY, as it current is, then it would be safer.... but Bolton Road is extremely busy and drivers take chances when they "think" Bolton Road is clear. BUT this is all theory. The proposal is to install traffic lights on this junction with the added delay to traffic flow which the pedestrian crossings will incur. If this happens I will not be surprised if traffic starts queuing at Tannery Corner / Cringles and Kirkgate seizes up with traffic trying to get past the parked cars. Highways will tell you they have "modelled" the junction and this is the best solution but wouldn't it be a good idea to set up some temporary three way traffic lights on the junction and see what happens? before accepting this as the best solution. |
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| grandad |
What a typical stupid idea from Bradford, Silsden will become a car park when this is done. Traffic waiting for the lights coming up, will conflict with those waiting for the lights going down, nobody will give way result gridlock. Then Bradford will have more ammo for saying we have to have a bypass, which will only be an access road into hundreds of more housing estates. And I expect it will takes them weeks to do the work |
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| Happywalker |
WHAT AN ABSOLUTE FARCE!! As somebody who has only lived in Silsden a mere 30 years, my views may carry less weight than those who have lived here all of their lives. That said, I simply cannot believe how planners and developers who have no knowledge of the dynamics of the village, its traffic and its infrastructure come along and start making such ridiculous plans for housing, roads, traffic lights etc! Traffic lights at Bell Square are, in my opinion, not needed, and to go ahead would be a shameful waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere. Traffic flow through Silsden needs to be smoother and more efficient. The priority is surely to end parking on Kirkgate. This is what clogs everything up! If people are worried about vehicles then speeding, okay, lets allow a couple of gentle speed bumps at the start and middle. Re the plans for a school at Drabble House, draw the school traffic up Bolton Road AWAY from the village, and have an access / exit road to the school from there.... otherwise Clogg Bridge will just become Clogged Bridge! We know more houses are coming yet plans to deal with it seem so short sighted and simply a joke. We are heading very quickly to a village in gridlock. |
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| midway |
Just a thought.  |
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| gazzer |
Some land on the left going spare to widen the road for a proper roundabout which would also slow down traffic |
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| Landrover |
Why not put the roundabout back where it belongs, bringing traffic through bell square should never have been done in the first, second or third place |
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| midway |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) Job sorted silsden.net/forum/philboard_read.asp?id=1245  |
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| captainslogg |
Can someone explain where the blind spot is ?? |
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| Peter |
quoteCan someone explain where the blind spot is ?? Going towards Bolton Road drive slowly looking to the right to turn right. As you approach the junction you can see the traffic coming up past the church, as you go forward you will find, for a brief moment you can no longer see through the castellations (on the wall at Purple Garlic)and any traffic coming round the corner disappears. This is not a problem if you STOP at the junction and look properly, but all too often people are looking left to see if there is a chance they can leap into a gap in the traffic coming down Bolton Road. BUT this is a GIVE WAY junction and they are convinced there is nothing coming from the RHS and then there is an accident. This problem does not exist for vehicles with a higher driving position because the drivers can see over over the castellated wall. |
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| ginjo |
would it not be cheaper to take the catellations off the wall? just a thought |
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| Happywalker |
Well said. Or, just make it a STOP line for those who need a specific instruction to STOP! |
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| Jolly Bob |
Is this the same Senior Traffic Engineer who decided to construct bicycle lanes complete with bollards, along Royd Ings Road in Keighley? These are a complete waste of OUR money and I have never seen them used. I can never see them being used. Heaven help us if he is the person to make this decision on these traffic lights. They are a complete waste of money and totally unnecessary and further more if they are implemented there will be absolute traffic chaos. Traffic Lights should be banned |
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| dexter |
The Midway post of 30/3 is a good one, with a roundabout suggestion, then add a ban on Kirkgate parking, this would solve the problem. Also much cheaper than the lights. Another roundabout at Belton Road exit would solve the problem there, fast becoming another danger spot because of speeding. |
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| wheelaman123 |
The man from B Met will have a degree from some university and that makes him qualified to make a decision on traffic flow through Silsden. The people who live here and experience the problems every day and can come up with the answer to this problem will not be heard because we do not have that qualification, all we have is common sense and experience but that don't count into days world.. |
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| Happywalker |
Again, well said. Do our local councillors not have any say in this, and if they do, what are their views? |
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| Peter |
quoteAgain, well said. Do our local councillors not have any say in this, and if they do, what are their views? Item 7 on the STC agenda for the meeting on Thurs 7 April silsden.net/town_council/docs_16/16_meetings/STC_meeting_agenda_Apr2016.pdf |
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| old_miner |
quoteThe man from B Met will have a degree from some university and that makes him qualified to make a decision on traffic flow through Silsden. The people who live here and experience the problems every day and can come up with the answer to this problem will not be heard because we do not have that qualification, all we have is common sense and experience but that don't count into days world.. So will the local genius who set up the pedestrian controlled crossing which is also controlled by traffic backing up to Clog Bridge step forward. A simple solution to a potentially awkward problem. They must have the answer to the Bell Square problem. |
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| Happywalker |
I note that in the poll, 79% of people vote to leave things as they are, 15% vote for a roundabout, and 6% vote for traffic lights. We can be surely reassured that our councillors will abide by this democratic vote. ????? |
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| Peter |
quoteI note that in the poll, 79% of people vote to leave things as they are, 15% vote for a roundabout, and 6% vote for traffic lights. We can be surely reassured that our councillors will abide by this democratic vote. ????? You need to define "our councillors", do you mean Silsden Town Councillors who will just have an opinion on the matter, or Bradford who will make the decision. Re the Poll  1. The 48 people that have voted is hardly a fair representation of the number of people who use the junction. 2. It would seem the majority of the people that have voted would like to see it left as it is now, BUT this is not really an option, considering the number of accidents that have happen on the junction over the years. 3. I have just added anther option to the poll - make the GIVE WAY into a STOP junction. Although this may skew the result slightly (adding it to an existing poll) I thought it was important enough to include this option. If you have not added your contribution to the poll please click here https://www.wedgies.com/question/56fbf9ceab36431c007a029d |
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| Happywalker |
Peter, thankyou for your input and information/links on the matter. I don't pretend to understand the politics of Bradford & local councillors. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Any sort of poll is surely better than none to highlight opinions. I don't know how many Silsden.net users there are, but as in any poll, if people choose not to vote, one can only make a call on those who have. I would be in favour of any ballot open to all Silsden residents on issues which affect us and our village. Unfortunately it clearly doesn't work that way despite living in a democratic country, and decisions affecting our village seem to be made without much consideration for our views. At a Give Way marking, nobody should proceed out of a junction until it is safe to do so. If they have to stop at the Give Way line to do so, then so be it. Accidents at this junction are purely down to driver error. Somebody has either turned out of, or turned into, the junction when it has not been safe to do so. If it had been safe, there wouldn't have been an accident! The junction isn't the cause, just the drivers. |
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| Peter |
The Trouble with the Bell Square Junction - the blind spot See the pictures news.silsden.net/pictures/the-trouble-with-the-bell-square-junction-the-blind-spot What you think of the traffic lights idea  TAKE THE POLL https://www.wedgies.com/question/56fbf9ceab36431c007a029d This item will be discussed at the STC meeting TONIGHT Item 7 on the STC agenda for the meeting on Thurs 7 April silsden.net/town_council/docs_16/16_meetings/STC_meeting_agenda_Apr2016.pdf |
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| Happywalker |
..... and 68% say to leave things as they are. Only 7% are in favour of lights. I feel the photos taken are not fair as they are taken from a point some distance back from the Give way marking ( which you can see on the photos ). A motorist should not be making any decision as to whether or not it is safe to enter Bolton Road until they actually reach the Give way line. That is why it is where it is. When driving around Tufton Street or Hothfield Street, you don't make a decision whether it is safe to pull out onto Skipton Road if your view is obstructed by a house! You wait until you reach the junction. |
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| ginjo |
leave it as it is, money could be spent on better things.There is not a blind spot, unless of course you have eye problems.Drivers need to be more careful, they are obviously not looking properly before pulling out, we have never had a near miss in over 25 years of living here |
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| grandad |
Happywalker, I agree completely with your analysis of the supposed blind spot. I also; when coming down Skipton road glance down Briggate and then again down bridge road, to get some information of the traffic on Kirkgate, before I finally check if it is clear to proceed when and only when I have a clear view of the A6034 in both directions, and therefore can see it is safe to go. |
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| Peter |
Perhaps I should have asked if you drive a 4 x 4 before you comment, and read any of the text which accompanies the pictures. Look at the pictures carefully and read the text before making assumptions. At the end of the day it is the drivers responsibility, BUT there have been too many accidents here. It would be interesting to get all the types of vehicles involved, I suspect most would be ordinary cars. |
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| grandad |
Peter, I would ask, How long is the bonnet of your car used to take the photos? You are clearly not fully up the the give way sign. I drive out of this junction with a Land Rover, motor Cycle and in a Vauxhall Corser, and I do not have a problem seeing the traffic from the give way line. There have been a number of collisions at this junction, all caused because the drivers did not make sure it was safe to proceed BEFORE they moved out into the traffic flow. I attended one where the driver of a car pulled out into the path of a car coming up kirkgate, this car swerved right to avoid the car and hit the front of a bus waiting to turn in. The the car driver who pulled out said, "I was not involved in the crash, nobody hit me" That is the problem, Drivers who can't drive! |
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| Happywalker |
Peter, please could you stand at the said junction in the position that you would be if sat in the drivers seat of the average car waiting at the Give Way marking. Could you please then take and post a photograph of the view to your right. There is NO blind spot at this point. There might be for the person in the car behind you, but they should not be making any judgement on entering Bolton Road until they reach the junction proper. This is true of junctions and side streets all over Silsden .... or should we have lights and roundabouts at them too? The village won't need extra decorations at Christmas time! |
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| ginjo |
we drive a small hatchback peter and do not have problems |
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| beenbusy |
I can only agree that there are no blind spots coming out of Bell Square. Made a point of checking on last couple of times driving on to Bolton Road. Of course we need safe roads but think we are looking for a solution to a problem that is just poor driving - cannot explain with any other reason why there are frequent incidents at that junction. |
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| Peter |
quotewe drive a small hatchback peter and do not have problems No it's not a problem if you STOP at the GIVEWAY line. But if you are unfamiliar with the junction it's not quite so easy. Have a look at the pictures carefully, the blue car cannot be seen until it get to the end of the wall. If you are moving forward toward the junction it's all too easy to miss the car completely because when you get to the junction you look left to see if you can get out between the traffic coming down Bolton Road. If you make a decision without looking right (because you believe the road is clear) that's when an accident happens. Have another look at the pictures news.silsden.net/pictures/the-trouble-with-the-bell-square-junction-the-blind-spot If you click on the first picture you will get a detailed slide show. BTW I treat this junction as a STOP junction and I have not had a problem, but I was behind someone that did have an accident and afterwards the driver that was hit said "I didn't see them". |
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| Replies in this thread : 74
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events sale / wanted general have your say looking for.. skippy greengrass |
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