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IMPORTANT PLEASE READ This website and forum has been living on borrowed web server time for years. At the end of this month silsden.net in it's present form will cease to exist, BUT there is a new silsden.net in the making, and a new forum, and lots of exciting new things coming to this space. Peter |
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Replies in this thread : 51
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Author |
Topic : Labour or Conservative Government? |
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| tolpuddle |
I will move away from Europe to the fundamental argument. Labour have made a lot of mistakes; fortunately the chickens are coming hoem to roost sooner than later so corrections will be made. That is the British way. The big mistake 'new' labour made in 1997 was to carry forward many 'conservative' ideas. In fact most of labours problems have come about becasue these 'conservative' ideas are the chickens coming home to roost. This is especially so in education and crime. In the early 1990 the Consevative government created what I referred to as 'edplan' after the USSR's centralised 'gosplan'. All targets, three year plans etc. Consequently the box tickers took over, centralised control replaced local flexibility. Result, eduction standards are no better, and hopefully no worse even though schools are sinkin under a burocracy of massive proportions. Crime was all about locking up for longer as rquested by the popular press. Result, overflowing prisons and no real feeling that crime was falling. When the exxperts looked at the causes of crime one that stands out is getting money to buy drugs. Solution, reduce criminality of drugs. Trouble is the popular press know better. Even so the popular press does not in this case actually have a solution. Immigration is the consequence of a labour shortage after WW2. Short of labour for the local mill the 'tory'mill owners brought in cheap labour from the Indian sub-continent. The rest is history. The current immigration problem is the consequence of greed. Similar for people from the West Indies and labour problems in London. The current financial situation has been good for 'old' Labour. Today it is bonuses that show capitalist greed. While the Conservative talk the talk in a solution it is doubtful if in power they would walk the walk. Where is the Conservative Party geting it's money from - the financial sector - why - they are betting for their interests. Fortunately the Conservatives have managed to have a bunch of percieved 'horay henries' running the party. Whatever GB is, he is not one of them. Also, Labour finding themselves placed in a position with nothing to lose have suddenly found that the 'socialist' ideas are now more acceptable, even to some sectors of the popular press. So they are going for it. What we are hearing is the Tory old guard trying to justify greed. 'All these money men will go abroad' where, who is going to employ a bunch of gamblers likely to loose all your money? Harold Macmillan said that governments loose elections more often than oppositions win them. Interestingly by hanging on Labour have go from being absolute losers to possible winners. The opposition are moving towards being losers. With the tories in power the top 2% of wealth would be better off. The next 8% would be OK while the 90% of us left would be screwed. Much as I think a lot of the government polices are useless I will vote Labour as I am one of the 90% who does not want to be screwed. |
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| alan |
Tolpuddle, could I please ask a simple question? If you are so fascinated by politics, do you spend as much time supporting practically the party you believe in, or do you just post on here about politics? |
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| Peter |
quoteI will move away from Europe to the fundamental argument. Do you just start a topic to put your point of view at the start and then, when the argument changes or goes against your point of view, start another topic with your view on that subject. You never seem to follow your point of view through. Perhaps you should start a blog, let me know when it is going and I will link to it.... a good place to start https://www.blogger.com/start |
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| tolpuddle |
Please define 'Have your say!!!' as it seems my interpretation is different from others. |
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| alan |
Tolpuddle, please answer my question as well  |
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| littleknownme |
I agree with you tolpuddle, Labour did carry forward policies of the tory party in 1997, much to my disgust. At the time the tories denounced the Labour party for doing this. Yet Labour could only be electable if it took the majority Tory press with them. Such is the state of this country. It could be argued that school education is no better but no worse than when the tories were in. At least the Labour party started a programme of building new schools. The old ones were in such bad repair after 18 yrs of Tory neglect. They also sold off many school playgrounds for private use. They introduced private catering companies with no care for our children's dietry needs, junk food being only the option. This has been addressed now. This neglect of state education, served the tories purpose of higher use of private education. They tried to undermine the health service with the same practises. Drugs became a great issue in our towns and villages when mines were closed down with no mechanism in place for occupying our unemployed. Drug barons moved in and took advantage of our lost society. High unemployment has always been a driver for crime and drugs. Yet we will never have full employment. So it makes sense to have a system in place for social cohesion to occupy the unemployed. Alan-please get involved in the debate, that's how you learn about real people and real issues. As for put up or shut up. We live in a democracy, not everyone wants to get involved in politics. It doesn't mean they don't have a right to an opinion. To me the more ideas put into a debate the better for democracy. |
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| alan |
I prefer to do it rather than pontificate littleknownme  |
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| alan |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) quoteTolpuddle, could I please ask a simple question? If you are so fascinated by politics, do you spend as much time supporting practically the party you believe in, or do you just post on here about politics? Where does the put up or shut up come from littleknownme? It's a simple question to tolpuddle! As for getting involved in the debate, not interested on here. There's little point, you're not going to change anyones opinions and I ain't going to change mine. In fact I think you and tolpuddle probably do more harm to the labour cause, but that's only my opinion. I've spent probably 40 years in political causes and school governors etc and know what the labour party have achieved over the last twelve years in health and education. This ain't the medium to gain converts. I'm off for a whisky.......... p.s. one last question does tolpuddle = littleknownme  |
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| tolpuddle |
I do my best to leave personalities out of this. However, I will answer your question. I am not a member of any political party, and doubt that I could be. I have long trodden my own path, and put forward my own opinions, which might not be the populist ones of the day. I would not tow any party line. As for blogging: at the top I read silsden.net local news and views So, I place my views without reference to individuals or personalities. Some of the comments to my very personal opinions suggest that I am not alone. For the record: 'sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me' |
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| alan |
What's personalities got to do with a simple question? Enjoy your armchair debates |
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| Peter |
tolpuddle, at the top of the page it does say "silsden.net local news and views" but I would question that this is the right place to debate national issues and I would be mortified if this forum became politicised. This forum is primarily for local issues. Your style of writing lends itself to a blog (from Wikipedia) A blog (a contraction of the term "web log") is a type of website, usually maintained by an individual with regular entries of commentary, descriptions of events, or other material such as graphics or video. Many blogs provide commentary or news on a particular subject; others function as more personal online diaries. A typical blog combines text, images, and links to other blogs, Web pages, and other media related to its topic. The ability for readers to leave comments in an interactive format is an important part of many blogs. Why not make a blog (it's free if you use the link I provided above). You can make your point of view - you own the blog, and see what the wider population think of it. I would be happy to link silsden.net to your blog when it is up and running. |
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| ted |
I am disgusted with Peter's 'Rupert Murdoch style' response to tolpuddles post. Dont call a post 'have your say' if you're going to reject it when people do. I understand that you are trying to protect your site and not make it political but politics are part of our lives and with an election looming, surely it is fair and expected that peoples political views will be discussed with fellow silsdeners? i think its wrong of you to reject tolpuddles point when there are a number of other pointless posts on this site that have nothing to do with silden and yet you seem to let them flow as they wish. dont become a murdoch and imprint disregard somebodys views just because you dont agree with them or they dont interest you....that's nearing dictatorship. regards |
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| alan |
ted - as one of those who does tend to write political and other posts I feel I must defend Peter - not that he probably can't do it for himself - BUT he refers to tolpuddles "style of writing" being the reason. Don't think that he is for one minute seeking to impose politically censorship Murdock style |
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| ted |
so he doesnt like the way somebody has expressed their perfectly legitimate views....you sure its not murdoch? |
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| alan |
Think you're missing the point ted To be blunt, I think it's the long diatribes! |
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| Peter |
ted, I would ask you to read my post above carefully, but I will point out a few words for you. "This forum is primarily for local issues" "I would be happy to link silsden.net to your blog when it is up and running" Murdoch, I think not! At no point have I censored a political view on this forum, but I must point out to you this is MY website and MY forum and I also have my own view which I try not to impose on the forum. The website was setup to provide local information for the people of Silsden and in this aim I believe it has succeeded, 800 visitors a day looking at 4000 local pages of information. If you look at the 'who's among us' map (link at the top of the page) you will see visitors come to the site from all over the world - BTW the map only logs the forum area and the webcam page. The election has not been called yet, but when it's announced I would expect to get a few more topics started on the subject... but it hasn't been called and this is a website designed for the people of Silsden and should be dealing with local issues. I'm sure the traffic problems caused by the gas works would have been much worse if Silsden hadn't expressed their views on this website, I know for a fact UU looked at the forum! Tolpuddle setup your blog, let us know the address, and then we can all read about your politics and make comments accordingly. |
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| Bob T |
Well said Peter, I am getting totally p***ed off every time i come on to the forum and see this t*ssers biased veiwpoint its almost getting to the stage where i dont want to switch on and talking to other members they feel the same ,rant over |
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| alan |
Don't be shy Bob T say what you think |
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| Bob T |
Only thinking same as you Alan ,but i put it into words |
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| ted |
bob is that because you and certain other members have formed a little 'clique' and dont like it when somebody says something that doesnt directly involve one of you. or is it because you clearly spend way too much time on here and not enough time out in the fresh air? my monies on a mixture of both. |
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| Bob T |
whhhoooo Ted |
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| ted |
intelligence triumphs once more |
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| Peter |
Let's stop trading insults, the subject is Topic : Labour or Conservative Government? ...if you insist.... |
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| alan |
Labour......... and they'll win 'cos everyone will see through Cameron and his lightweights during the election campaign! |
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| skippy |
if the tories had any sense they wouldnt stand and leave this sad bunch to finaly bancrupt us unless we allready are |
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| alan |
We can only hope skippy |
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| Peter |
If you want to understand why the country is in such a mess I would recommend this site. >>>>>> www.debtbombshell.com/ <<<<<< |
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| skippy |
peter we all know why this country is in so much debt its called bad management by incompetent people like brown and co |
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| carliol |
skippy....spot on! however, life is strange...this one has time to run, and there will be twists and turns....but hopefully Brown and co will be held to account. If not, someone else will inherit a real mess! |
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| ted |
skippy, carilol not sure how much you pay attention to the news etc but this is a global recession, it is physically impossible to hold one government to account for any of it. prior to entering the recession, we had the strongest economy we've ever had. brown rightly held the label 'greatest chancellor of all time'. the recession was the fault of the banks and people like us who borrowed, borrowed and borrowed and forgot about the need to pay it back sometime. an uneducated response would be to blame the government. |
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| carliol |
ted....I am very uneducated... private school, grammar school, university, senior jobs in UK and abroad.....so clearly unable to discuss anything of merit with such a person as yourself...thank you for putting me in my place at the bottom of the pile. I still think GB will be "found out" in due course, hopefully I will live long enough to see it. |
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| carliol |
sorry....I should also have said that I lived in a council house for my first 22 years, have voted labour for over 40 years, never voted tory...so don't class me as a "privileged" person, just an "uneducated" one. Grrrrr! Feel better now........... |
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| alan |
ted - you forgot to mention that THIS governnment with the greatest chancellor we've ever had - GORDON BROWN - cleared the WW2 debts in 2002 Gordon Browns ONLY failing is that he isn't an charismatic leader - but he's a damn fine fella and excellent politician and leader! Or perhaps you'd rather have an ultra-right-wing Tony Blair wannabee, if so vote David Cameron and his plastic chums - then wait till they all melt when the heat gets on! I ain't gonna put my CV on here to prove I can argue, other than that I was made redundant THREE times in the recessions of the Tories! |
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| Fred |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) ...the greatest chancellor we've ever had - GORDON BROWN  the only way he managed to get to surplus was because he continued with the Ken Clark budget plan after the New Labour gained power. Things went rapidly downhill after GB started using his own ideas.This is the fellow that raided the pensions, sold off our gold at a rock bottom price and lost track of what the banks were doing. |
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| carliol |
getting too personal now....time to leave this site alone for a while....maybe things will calm down...have a great Xmas everyone, and be happy! |
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| littleknownme |
What an aggressive rant, such a shame that we can't discuss and learn from each other. This is why so few people get involved in politics because of bullying tactics like this. People resorting to personal attacks. Goodnight, goodbye, goodluck. I don't know who tolpuddle is but seems like a reasonable person, Silsden could do with more people like this involved locally. Merry xmas all and all the best for 2010. |
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| Replies in this thread : 51
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events sale / wanted general have your say looking for.. skippy greengrass |
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DON'T FORGET THE SUBJECT IS >>>>>>>> Forums Home > Have Your Say !!!! > Labour or Conservative Government? |
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09/12/2009 : 08:17:12 