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IMPORTANT PLEASE READ This website and forum has been living on borrowed web server time for years. At the end of this month silsden.net in it's present form will cease to exist, BUT there is a new silsden.net in the making, and a new forum, and lots of exciting new things coming to this space. Peter |
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Replies in this thread : 24
Author |
Topic : 20mph or 30mph ? |
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| Peter |
An interesting article in The Sunday Telegraph 21 Oct 2007 Pulling a fast one at 20mph The department of Transport's latest gimmick, in its obsession that speed limits reduce accidents, is its recommendation to local authorities to cut urban limits from 30 to 20mph. Appropriately, the first local politician to jump on the bandwagon was Mayor Ken Livingstone, who plans a 20mph limit, enforced by cameras, on every residential street in London. It took road-safety expert Paul Smith (of www.safespeed.com) to spot the curious fact, buried in the DfT's own statistics, that the rate of fatal or serious accidents in 20 mph zones (17 per cent of accidents that cause injury) is higher than in 30 mph zones (13 per cent). As Mr Smith points out, "for the DfT to urge a massive extension of 20mph limits without providing any research into why they appear to be more dangerous is like a drug company launching a new drug without testing it for possible adverse reactions". Mr Smith has long been the leading critic of the DfT's policy, since the mid-1990s, of trying to cut accidents with speed limits enforced by cameras, rather than tackling the causes of accidents in other ways, backed by police patrols. As Mr Smith shows, this policy has coincided with a marked slowing in the decline of Britain's accident rate, which for 30 years made our roads the safest in the EU (between 2000 and 2004 we fell to 18th place). The DfT has supported this by wholesale falsification of the statistics. Last year Mr Smith forced it to drop its claim that "a third of all accidents are caused by speed" — the true figure is 5 per cent. Stand by for more speed limits, more cameras, more accidents and more bogus figures. |
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| Grianan |
I would support recommending 25mph in truly residential side-streets, however I am wary of Councils misusing the idea - look at the stupid 30mph limit from Laneshawbridge into Colne... I would support a 25mph limit on main roads through villages if they were sensibly sited. Eg. in Silsden: from the petrol station through to the Co-Op turnoff? |
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| pumbajunior |
agreed on the colne stretch and i agree with the 25 through silsden from co op to shell but knowing the highways agency it would be from the bypass to the top of cringles another annoying one is 20mph from alma to fardew golf course in east morton |
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| gazzer |
I think the Colne section used to be outside an old persons home or houses but no longer is so the limit should be raised. |
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| pumbajunior |
it doesnt really matter they could make it 60 and you would still have to do 30 or go to the denist for replacement fillings every week the way the road surface is |
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| chaz |
ishould think it impossible to do above twenty five miles ph through silsden it`s always jammed up with traffic although driving up the main street last week i stopped outside the petshop because i could see a rather large wagon coming down the town and FOUR idiots went past me first three got past fourth one was stuck along side my car sticking two fingers up at me and guess what all four drivers were men |
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| pumbajunior |
yup its good having coffee/food in 55 not only is it delicious but you get to see some peoples muppet attempts to get past when there is a lorry there if the lorry is already alongside the parked cars let it past as you did if its waiting then go its easy |
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| wahiba |
Ings Way is a 30mph road and some muppet has managed to bounce off a wall into the side of a garage. Not sure how they managed it. anyone know the details. |
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| ginjo |
don't know the details but there was a short article in t&a saying a woman in her 20's had been taken to airedale with a hand injury following an accident in silsden in the early hours (cannot remember which day). It does not suprise me, I regularly see people speeding on Ingsway particularly if they are coming down from the top end as road is a bit wider . I think there was someone racing round the waterside area that night, could have been the same person. |
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| pumbajunior |
on my way to the train station last night (just by the driving range) i saw some sort of sports car (possiby a smart coupe) doing around 70mph going towards the village and still accelerating for 1 its 40mph there for 2 it takes heavy acceleration to get to that speed from the roundabout what a muppet |
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| carliol |
maybe some speed cameras on the road past the golf driving range would solve the problem, some people treat the "new" road like a racetrack now. I too walk up and down to the station and if it's not speeding it's people on mobiles in their vehicles. Nobody cares any more. |
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| Peter |
Please read the first post on this thread (you are missing the point of why I started this thread). For those of you that think walking along Keighley Road is dangerous please put your views on the current survey www.survey.faxsol.co.uk/TakeSurvey.aspx?SurveyID=94KH57l |
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| carliol |
OK Peter, I suppose what I was saying was that speed limits should be enforced, especially in 20/30/40 limits, and that cameras should be used.The actual limits should be decided by the local community, and depend on local conditions/ school times etc. Traffic does slow down where there are cameras. This fits, I think, with the thread. Speed is not just about accidents, it is about people's impatience and intolerance of others....aggressive behaviour on wheels, so to speak. We see it every day, part of modern life and attitudes. Sorry....that's another subject! |
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| gazzer |
I see a speed scamera is planned for North Street Keighley. www.keighleynews.co.uk/news/5013226.North_Street_speed_camera_/?ref=mr The justification in the article is 5 accidents in 3 years with one being fatal. However at the inquest Anita Blow, a West Yorkshire Police accident investigator based in Wakefield said "The driver would have had no opportunity to stop the vehicle and the impact speed was probably below 20mph." The coroner said "I do not believe it is a safe place to cross, so I will therefore be writing to the local authority to ask them to review that crossing...in order to prevent similar fatalities." Still doesnt stop the Council using it as a stat to prove the need for a speed camera! |
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| pumbajunior |
the problem is it doesnt matter what speed limit you put up there are some drivers that will always do much more than the limit a while back i saw a corsa come over the canal bridge early evening going fast with engine screaming he was going so fast he was wheel spinning on the top of the bridge and snaking about luckily he didnt lose control or i wouldnt be typeing this now on keighley road after about 6-7pm i think the speed limit must double in some peoples eyes |
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| jonno |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) The problem is idiots who develop a world view and stick rigidly to it and interpret or distort or just downright lie, like the DfT, about all factual data and make it fit in with what they already believe. They don't make informed decisions based on the data or anything like that, they have an idea about how the world works, or should work, and they adopt policies that [they think] will achieve or support this. Ben Goldacre has loads of examples on his website www.badscience.net edit: clarified |
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| old_miner |
To survive the human race needs the selfish I'm all right gene. In the beginning the strong worked together and the weak fell by the wayside. No ocisal security in those days, they were left to the sabre tooth. Speeding is a modern anifestation of this gene. No speed limits only works when everyone is considerate to everyone else all of the time. It won't happen - so speed limits it is. They are not a perfect solution, but no one has actually come up with anything better, have they? |
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| jonno |
I don't disagree with speed limits, they are needed. I do disagree with idiots like the DfT who make unvalidated, false claims about the benefits of 20mph speed limits, and as a result would have us all trailing round like snails for no appreciable benefit at all. The officials who make these false claims, knowing they are false should be sacked. |
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| carliol |
It's all about the odds..better to be hit at 20 than 30...and children have a better chance of surviving at lower speed. Depends if you value human life...make it 20, and be done with it! Common sense. |
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| gazzer |
I suppose we could re-introduce the 1865 Red Flag Act |
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| carliol |
not a bad idea gazzer, speed limit was 4mph I think, and it would also solve the unemployment problem overnight! All you need to find are 20 million people who can walk at 4mph! Mind you, why bother with the car,eh? |
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| tolpuddle |
Why indeed bother with the private motor car. Is it a blessing or a curse? |
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| jonno |
quoteIt's all about the odds..better to be hit at 20 than 30...and children have a better chance of surviving at lower speed. Depends if you value human life...make it 20, and be done with it! Common sense. Unfortunately what we might think is common sense is not borne out by the facts... "in the DfT's own statistics, [it shows] that the rate of fatal or serious accidents in 20 mph zones (17 per cent of accidents that cause injury) is higher than in 30 mph zones (13 per cent). " It is quite often the case that what we think is obvious as far as cause and effect is different (counter-intuitive) to the actual way things work. I haven't had time to study the stats in detail or the contributory factors around them, but I will, however the bare facts remain the same. The DfT's own studies have shown 20mph zones do not reduce serious injury or fatalities in the way they want them to. The fact that people believe more children survive at 20mph is more a testament to the DfT's advertising campaign than anything else. "Kill your speed...not a child" etc. |
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| Peter |
A curse the car may be but as I started this topic I would like it to remain on topic which is: quoteThe DfT are misusing statistics. I would agree that outside schools perhaps the speed limit should be 20mph but a blanket 20mph (as suggested), would actually increase accident rate,as shown by the DFt's own data. Please read the first post before leaping in. The new website for Paul Smith re speed related myths and truths is now www.safespeed.org.uk/main.html |
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| jonno |
The DfT claimed the following stats to support their push of 20mph limits, saying the introduction of these had lowered casualties year on year. 2005 - 268,000 2006 - 255,000 2007 - 245,000 2008 - 228,000 BUT the Dft then admit that their figures, which come only from STATS 19 police accident reports, do not tally with hospital admissions from collisions and compensation claims and other sources. So by their own admission their figures are inaccurate. The actual figures for 2009 injuries only were closer to 800,000. This kind of shoots down their claim that accidents/injuries are reducing because of the 20mph limits being introduced. From the DfT publication, "Reported Road Casualties Great Britain: 2008 Annual Report." quotethe DfT know their figures are inaccurate but continue to quote them to push their 20mph agenda anyway. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) knows better than the DfT about casualties, so why not use their more accurate figures? I'll tell you why, because they can cherry pick and quote their own figures to promote whatever is their flavour of the week. |
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| Replies in this thread : 24 |
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events sale / wanted general have your say looking for.. skippy greengrass |
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22/10/2007 : 09:47:03 
27/10/2007 : 13:05:47