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IMPORTANT PLEASE READ This website and forum has been living on borrowed web server time for years. At the end of this month silsden.net in it's present form will cease to exist, BUT there is a new silsden.net in the making, and a new forum, and lots of exciting new things coming to this space. Peter |
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Topic : The hopper 713 is to be withdrawn from service |
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| Peter |
I understand that w.e.f 23rd April the hopper 713 is to be withdrawn from service.This is a blow to many elderley people who live in the outlying areas of Silsden. I found out by chance,I bet not many people are aware,can you put the information on the website. thanks Posted on behalf of Janet |
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| alan |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) It's an absolute scandal!! As usual Silsden is receiving second-class treatment! This bus is a lifeline for dozens of OAP's who would otherwise never be able to get out to Keighley. Bradford Councillors should be screaming from the rooftops about this. Free bus passes for OAP's and they allow them to withdraw services! Is there a connection? To say I'm fuming would be an understatement! |
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| alan |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) Response to an e-mail I sent. Thank you for your enquiry. We run service 713 under contract to Metro. The current contract expires on 22 April and has not been renewed. My understanding is that alternative arrangements are being made by Metro to maintain a service to the Waterside area. Regards Geoff Lomax Commercial Director Keighley & District Travel Ltd |
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| alan |
this post has been edited 2 time(s) Just so everybody is clear it is METRO who has not renewed the contract with Keighley and District. So who is Metro? From their website: - Metro is the West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Authority (PTA) and Executive (PTE). The Authority is made up of 22 elected councillors from the county’s five local councils, Bradford, Calderdale, Kirklees, Leeds and Wakefield. The answer is local councillors. I trust that everyone will be e-mailing our District Councillors, Messers Kelly, Mallinson, and Naylor. See this website for e-mail addresses. This item will be included on the Silsden Town Council agenda for April, come along and have your say. HOPEFULLY, at least one District Councillor will be there! |
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| Peter |
Where do the buses go to in Silsden? Here is a bus map - www.silsden.net/useful/docs/silsdenbuses1.pdf |
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| scorpio |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) This bus service serves a large area of Silsden, much of it hilly, and is an important link with the village centre and Keighley with connections to Leeds & Bradford for many people. Does anyone have email address's for councillors please. |
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| Peter |
These are the people you need to email www.bradford.gov.uk/asp/councillors/details.asp?Wardid=9 |
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| vinny |
i hope all you people that voted Conservaive are now kicking yourselves. They have done nothing to prevent this from going ahead and consistently fail to represent the good public of Silsden. shameful and disgusting. tories out. |
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| alan |
Nope "vinny" I didn't so no reason to kick myself at all!!! But I DID vote, pity only 18% bothered to join me! |
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| scorpio |
The following has been sent, by email, to:- Ann Cryer, Chairman WYPTE, Our three councillors, Silsden Town Council, Keighley News. but I suspect the die is cast, and has been for some time as the 713 was never included on the "Zone" bus scheme and has continued to use unsuitable buses on the majority of days. It is with great concern and disappointment that I learn that the 713 Keighley – Silsden via the eastern side of Silsden is to be withdrawn. The bus route forms an essential link to and from, not only the village centre but also Keighley, Leeds, Bradford and beyond. The service may not meet the financial targets for such services but its value to the passengers is priceless. It is rumoured that an alternative service is planned; no details are available on either the WYMETRO or Keighley & District web sites. Doubtless this will involve a change of bus in the village with attendant safety risks for elderly passengers. It is not apparent to me that usage of the service has dropped and I suspect would increase after April 1st when concessionary travel becomes free, as it will no longer cost effective to take cars into Keighley. Car parking as Steeton & Silsden station is impossible during concessionary hours. Withdrawal of the service will increase my, and other residents “Carbon Footprint” and congestion factors about which we should all be conscious Service improvements in the form of smaller buses (12/16 seater), better timings to meet trains and a one hour earlier start and later finish could possibly result in significant increase in both usage and revenue. The flagship, 662 Shuttle, frequently runs with two buses and occasionally three buses following each other. A reduction in service levels from 10 minutes to 15 minutes would not I suspect affect passenger levels and would release staff, cash and even buses to operate both the 713 and 708 which is also under threat. I urge all recipients to re-examine the part they play in the decision to withdraw this, and other services and come to a decision, which maintains a satisfactory level of public, community transport in this area and, by imaginative ideas increase passenger numbers. |
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| alan |
For those who are interested I believe that one of the district councillors who sits on Metro is the Keighley councillor John Prestage. I would suggest that all interested parties include him in their e-mails. His address is john.prestage@bradford.gov.uk |
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| scorpio |
I had an email last night from a lady who lives in Spring Gardens and has been in contact with Ann Cryer who is taking up the fight. She and her father have produced a flyer for distribution, more details later. |
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| alan |
I did hear that the decision to withdraw the service was by agreement with Metro and Keighley and District. I e-mailed Keighley and District and this is the response I got. Over to you Metro! Mr xxxx Certainly not a joint decision. Service 713 has never been a commercially operated service and has always operated under contract to West Yorkshire. Although we have been the only operator of the service it has been subject to competitive tender approximately every three years. The current contract expires on 22 April, and my understanding is that it is not being renewed or retendered, Metro having decided to serve Waterside by alternative means. Regards Geoff Lomax Commercial Director Keighley & District Travel Ltd The interesting thing is that I e-mailed Metro with the same queries last week and guess what, they haven't replied! |
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| alan |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) More chaps for you all to e-mail. These are the Bradford councillors on the WYPTA/Metro. The Cllrs currently on Wesy Yorkshire Passenger Transport Authority are: Cllr Chris Greaves Cllr Sher Khan Cllr JohnStanley King (Chairman) Cllr John Prestage Cllr Anne Wallace |
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| Peter |
Here is the page to get the email addresses from www.bradford.gov.uk/asp/councillors/byname.asp |
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| amccarter1983 |
I spoke to the bus driver about this last night and as far as she was concerned, Jacksons are going have a provision for the waterside part of Silsden. What does this mean though? we can get a bus as far as the train station or town centre and change to get another? It seems that Metro are too busy spending money on those big yellow buses and the Silsden bus is out of the window. Next it will be the Riddlesden and East Morton services. Why cant the 762 0r 712 go around waterside? |
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| alan |
This matter will be discussed at the Silsden Town Council Meeting of the 6th April. Silsden Town Council cannot make the decision to retain the service, it is outside our remit. But there will, no doubt, be Bradford District Councillors present at the meeting to listen to what you may have to say. |
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| Lord Sprocket |
During the day the 713 is full of OAP's (btw this is annoying as I usually have to stand up ) so why is the service being terminated. Also it seems a bit weird that when the new free bus passes for OAP's become available metro decides to terminate the contract. During half term I needed to go into school using two service buses, one to Steeton and another one to Cross Hills. I had to wait in Steeton at least twenty minutes either way (there and back) before the next bus was due. If using public transport is that inconvenient for a person of my age while the 713 is in service what will it be like for people who depend on it every day? Also can I get a free bus pass or is it only available to those who won't be able to walk down into the centre of Silsden everyday? |
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| wahiba |
As an occasional user of this service I feel I may add a comment. Rarely has the bus had a load in double figures, and there have been times when I have been the only passenger. I know it is used by some older people, but not all. While waiting for the bus the other day at least three cars passed driven by older people, during this totally unscientific survey they were all women. I can understand Metro withdrawing the contract, and i doubt if the drivers are going to miss negotating all the cars parked on the road beside empty drives. Use it or lose it applies to all local services. It was not used. It is lost. |
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| Fred |
Have you signed the "save our 713" petition in the Post Office? Get your names down. |
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| alan |
Perhaps "wahiba" you're going to offer a service to the pensioners without cars by taking them shopping? No buses. More cars on the road, eh? More parking. Oh dear, you won't like that! |
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| Lord Sprocket |
Is the 903 going to come around waterside and how much will full fair be from silsden to steeton? |
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| ginjo |
Is it definite that the 903 is going to run round waterside?The last I heard was that nothing had been decided.Jacksons do not answer e-mails neither does Ann Cryer.Everything seems to have gone very quiet, usual apathy in Silsden.I notice that the local councillors were quick to send out letters,no doubt hoping to get our vote in May but what have they done to save the bus? |
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| Fred |
Ann Cryer will not reply to your email. From experience you will get a non committal reply written on House of Commons headed paper in about 3 months time. Contacting her through the email system is still the easiest way to contact her and she will have to look into the problem and write to Metro etc. All we can do is keep making a noise and hope someone will listen. |
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| ginjo |
Is anyone making a noise? I can't hear it.I understand that a rep from metro was at the town council meeting a couple of weeks ago.Does anyone know what happened? Nothing in the paper, no news on here why hasn't the town mayor or other councillors kept people informed.No leaflets on the buses or notices at bus stops and yet according to a bus driver, the service definitely stops on saturday.I won't hold my breath for a reply from Ann Cryer, I have never had one before.Cllr Greaves replied this week, he is "asking officers" !! He is on the WYPTE board!! |
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| ginjo |
Just phoned metro to find out about replacement service, Jacksons are running the 903 to Waterside but there are no timetables yet! they have not been printed!! Metro said to ring next week, not much good if you need to catch a bus on Monday!! Jacksons also have no timetables yet, but think there will be a bus at waterside at 9-34 am and 11-55am, this will of course only run to Airedale hospital. |
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| alan |
"ginjo" I personally haven't stopped making noises! I would suggest you read BOTH the Keighley News and the Craven Herald for a report of the heated discussion that went on at the Town Council meeting. Why weren't YOU at the meeting to say your piece as a member of the public to the Metro rep? It was advertised on here beforehand! |
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| wahiba |
Yesterday I noticed the last 713 arrive in Silsden. There were no passengers. That is why it has been lost. Use it or lose it. |
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| alan |
Always look on the positive side eh, "wahiba"? Wonder how many OAP's that you'll be giving a lift to Keighley now they can't get the bus? Ah well, yet more cars on the road, yet more cars parked, will at least give you something to complain about! |
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| ginjo |
I understand that there is a meeting today between Keighley & District travel and the vice chair of P.T.A to try and resolve the matter. Without wishing to sound negative, I don't hold out much hope.According to metro, they cannot fund a replacement service at public expense, not enough people used the bus.I disagree with that statement, I used it all the time and it was always very busy.I did think it was stupid to send the bus round Silsden twice, it was obviously on its second trip on saturday when "wahiba" saw it with no passengers, thats because they will have all got off on the frist circuit. |
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| alan |
this post has been edited 2 time(s) For anybody who are still interested, you might find the attached of interest: - The chair of the WYPTA is Cllr Karam Hussain and his e-mail address is Karam.hussain@kirklees.gov.uk. |
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| ginjo |
what attachment? can you put the comments on the site please.I was in the post office yesterday, the petitions are still in there!! Not much use having a petition if it does not get handed in before the bus is withdrawn! Does any body know whether you can use a metro card on the Keighley and district bus because you cannot use a K Day on Jacksons so if you wanted to get Jacksons to silsden then transfer to K&D you have to pay twice. I can see that not many people will bother with the 903 and then no doubt that will be stopped through lack of use.Also it does not fit in with the buses from Silsden to Keighley, you are left with a long wait. |
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| Peter |
NOTE: You cannot upload attachments to this message board. However, you can link to the file if it is hosted on a website. Any problems send the file to me and I will find a home for it, but you must own the copyright. For contact details see silsden.net/about/email.shtm Thanks, Peter |
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| scorpio |
I also saw the last bus go down Waterside on Saturday empty but as my wife pointed out, who would want to go to Keighley at that time if the could not get back. The news about the petition is sad but if every one that signed it used the bus once a week it may not have been stopped. According to Metro it has been withdrawn on purely financial grounds:- WITHDRAWAL BUS SERVICE 713 Thank you for your letter concerning the withdrawal of service 713, I hope I can explain the position to you. Service 713 is provided by Keighley & District Travel (K&D). Metro paid K&D to operate the service in the Waterside area of Silsden under a contract which expired in 2006. In negotiating an extension of this contract, K&D sought a significant increase in costs which would not give value for public money. As a result Metro refused to pay the additional cost and K&D subsequently gave notice to withdraw the entire bus service. Metro has arranged with Jackson's of Silsden to extend service 903 into Waterside. This will maintain a link to Silsden for onward bus travel to Keighley and provide new links to the rail station and hospital. The withdrawal of service 713 will adversely affect passengers in the Greenhead area of High Utley who will have to walk to services on Skipton Road. Whilst I recognise the inconvenience this will cause people, especially those who have difficulty walking, Metro does not automatically replace withdrawn commercial bus services at public expense. We have examined the ticket sales information provided by K&D. An average of 4 passengers board each trip on the 713 in this area which would be insufficient to justify subsidy of a stand alone service. Whilst I recognise the inconvenience caused by to local people by the withdrawal of service 713, I regret to advise you that Metro cannot fund its full replacement at public expense. Metro will however continue to discuss local people's concerns with bus operators with a view to finding a long term solution to these issues. Yours sincerely DAVE PEARSON BUS & RAIL MANAGER Following the above I asked that they run early morning buses to the station which they have done but they were probably going to do that anyway. Since the time table was issued (Thursday last) I have written the following:- I now have a copy of the new time table for the 903 including diversion round Waterside area. Whilst there is a reduction in the services during the middle of the day, there is an greatly improved service early morning and an improvement early evening which is good. However returning from Leeds in the mid/late afternoon is not very good. After the 13:24 arrival at Steeton & Silsden the next train with a connection round Waterside is 17:56 (ignoring any possible connection via Bradford). This train is normally full to capacity with commuters and in fairness to them it is inappropriate for "shoppers" to use this train. It would therefore be helpful if the 17:23 bus could go round Waterside. tO which they have replied:- TIMETABLE FOR SERVICE 903 REQUEST TO EXTEND SERVICE 903 17:23 JOURNEY ROUND WATERSIDE I refer to your communication dated 20 April 2006 concerning the above. I have passed this matter on to my officers for investigation. Once these are complete, they will contact you direct. Thank you for bringing this matter to my attention Yours sincerely NEIL HOLT ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, TRANSPORT CO-ORDINATION Writing to the councillors was a waste of time as they only replied when prompted regarding none reply. If you go to a web site traveline via wymetro.com it will work out all the connections to Keighley or wherever and tell you which stop to get off at! I did not go to the council meeting, in whom I have little faith, or make a great noise but I have been working away in the background |
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| Peter |
The timetable for the 903 (from 23 April 2006) can be view here www.wymetro.com/NR/rdonlyres/0E78A6B8-9CB4-407A-B315-D6182AB391DD/0/903.pdf |
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| wahiba |
A small point, I do not have a car. An average of 4 passengers per bus says it all. About right from my observations. There seem to be plenty of retired people on Waterside with cars. No doubt they will be neighbourly  |
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| Replies in this thread : 45
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events sale / wanted general have your say looking for.. skippy greengrass |
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