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Replies in this thread : 21
Author |
Topic : Why is UKIP doing so well |
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| midway |
Great tracts of urban Britain have been utterly changed by immigration in the course of barely a generation. The people who originally lived in these areas were never consulted and felt that the communities they lived in had been destroyed. Nobody would speak up for them: not the Conservatives, not Labour, not the Lib Dems. They were literally left without a voice. Many of these people were Labour supporters and were driven into the arms of the racist British National Party and its grotesque leader Nick Griffin. One of Britain’s unacknowledged debts to Nigel Farage is the failure of Griffin’s racist project. Disenfranchised Labour voters tend to drift to the SNP in Scotland and Ukip in England. |
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| Frankiegray1993 |
I just think it's a shame that the majority of people who have voted UKIP haven't actually read all of their policies. They just see the headline "no immigration" and decide to vote for them. Their other policies would be incredibablly damaging to this country. Now it's labours job to acknowledge the points that are making people vote for UKIP and taking them on in a much more diplomatic way without all the terrible policies that UKIP offer. No paid maternity leave, no further action on global warming prevention but to name a few |
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| gazzer |
quoteI just think it's a shame that the majority of people who have voted UKIP haven't actually read all of their policies. They just see the headline "no immigration" and decide to vote for them. Their other policies would be incredibablly damaging to this country. Now it's labours job to acknowledge the points that are making people vote for UKIP and taking them on in a much more diplomatic way without all the terrible policies that UKIP offer. No paid maternity leave, no further action on global warming prevention but to name a few Something was bound to happen after 40 years of sleepwalking into a European superstate that nobody voted for.In 1973 Silsden Urban District Council ran most local things with West Riding County Coucil looked after schools, highways,police and fire.. Then it started.We lost the local council to Bradford who later took on county council roles. Nationally power has shifted to Brussels and each move has watered down whatever votes we have. Across Europe people are now voting to regain powers, in the UK it just happens at this time UKIP (and Independents) are getting the votes because they want to make a difference.. The established politicians seem to be in denial claiming its just protest votes. Lets see |
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| Golden Oldie |
Very well put Gazzer, had we been Continentals, I'm sure this country would have had protests at so many held back promises. I don't want a fascist state, I want the GREAT putting back into Britain, with long held values and principles that aren't watered down to suit a minority. Yes, we voted UKIP and it was definately a protest vote. |
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| Frankiegray1993 |
If you're going to protest vote, at least vote for a party that isn't harmful and that cares about everybody. I read a good quote the other say "Voting for UKIP as a protest vote is like sh***ing your hotel bed as a protest against bad service but then realising you have to sleep in a sh**** bed" |
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| ealteacher |
Thanks Golden Oldie for saying it was a protest vote. and for talking about the values and principles that have kept our country from fascism. The best thing I have heard about the fall out from the EU election is this quote from the shadow Secretary for Business: "This general election will not just be about policies. It will actually be about your values and what you believe in us as a country. Do we want to be a country that turns in on itself that blames the other for all of our problems that seeks to set different groups up against each other or do we want to do what has made Britain great in the past and what will make it great in the future which is to ensure we give everybody a platform to go on and succeed and achieve their dreams and aspirations and where we actually hang together - we adhere to the great British values of tolerance and mutual respect for each other. That is how we will be able to go and compete in an increasingly competitive world where we are facing challenges from emerging market economies like China and India. It is not by reverting in on ourselves which is basically Ukip's prescription. So We have got to take Ukip seriously as a party and I welcome the chance to scrutinize and debate with them their policies but also to scrutinize and debate with them their values." I like how he sets it in a real world where we have to compete economically but links this to values. |
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| gazzer |
quoteIf you're going to protest vote, at least vote for a party that isn't harmful and that cares about everybody. I read a good quote the other say "Voting for UKIP as a protest vote is like sh***ing your hotel bed as a protest against bad service but then realising you have to sleep in a sh**** bed" Voting for mainstream parties is like finding someone does that in your bed every night and you dont protest against them doing it |
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| gazzer |
Amazingly there was post after post recently after the Town Council levy was announced yet nothing about the fact that the EU budget has not been signed of as correct for around 20 years in a row. We have had three prime ministers in that time and nothing has changed. |
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| midway |
Protest vote or is it time for Labour and the Tories to wake up? Cameron is being sensible. I think he sees that the majority want to remain in a european framework, but the British electorate doesn't like being lectured to by the EU. Britian wants to retain the right to a decision on a number of issues that have been watered down by the EU over the years and therefore it seems to make sense that Cameron has asked for the opportunity to "re-negotiate" it's terms and conditions. It also looks as though a number of other countries wish to do the same and therefore pressure will allow changes to be made that will be within our best interests. Alas, this will take time, but when it has concluded, Cameron has declared that the country will then have its say via a referendum. Now, to me that makes more sense than an IN/Out vote a la UKIP |
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| victor |
just seen a post on facebook about UKIP candidate Geoffrey Clarke, he calls for compulsory abortion for Down's syndrome and Spina Bifida baby's. That's another one of there policys. |
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| Peter |
Oh dear, you should check your facts before posting things from facebook. www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-candidate-geoffrey-clarke-calls-1495957 It may be true but check the date it was posted and the consequences of his words.... |
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| victor |
I am sorry peter, knee-jerk reaction to something I find abhorrent. |
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| old_miner |
Interesting article in the Guardian about the founder of UKIP. Briefly he got out when Farage et al took over. Interestingly he reckons UKIP should not stand for the European elections, it is the height of hypocrisy. In practise they do nothing and live the high life. I suppose one way of demonstrating the 'bad' bits about the EU is to join in and take advantage of them. Interestingly they make no effort to change them from within. £65000 pa plus expenses is a good incentive to do very little, especially if it might hit ones own pocket!!! As for immigration there are certain points that are usually avoided. 1 Immigrants generally head for countries offering opportunity, work and freedom. 2 We have an ageing population and most immigrants are young. Old codgers like me need these young immigrants to look after us in our old age. 3 Dodgy employers who heartily embrace capitalism employ immigrants because: a they are cheap b most speak some English c someone else has paid for their education and training However, many employers take them on because they speak English and they cannot get anyone else. As many of these are in professional jobs, dentists, doctors etc. Really the result of us not wanting to pay taxes and the government obliging by not paying out to train sufficient professionals for our essential services. However, a study of history will show that that this has been the situation for a very long time. I mean Farage is probably descended form immigrant refugees, probably protestants running from Catholics in the 16th - 18th centuries. So this present rampage against immigrants will no doubt be as successful as all that have gone before. Also the descendants will be rampaging against future immigration. That is actually happening with UKIP. One of the Yorkshire UKIP MEPs looks to have family origins well beyond these shore. As a pro European I reckon we should get stuck in to the EU to sort out the dodgy elements and create a Great British super state. |
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| midway |
BBC NEWS UKIP founder Alan Sked launches New Deal party 13 September 2013 Last updated at 13:20 BST The founder of UKIP, who served as its first leader, has formed a left of centre, anti-EU party this week but it has already pledged to boycott the 2014 European elections. Alan Sked said his former party had "gone native inside Brussels" with its MEPs taking money and expenses from the EU, but he claimed "they don't do anything". New Deal advocates Britain's exit from the EU, pledges to renationalise the railways and scrap some of the coalition's benefit changes. Mr Sked spoke to Andrew Neil after they looked back to archive footage of him launching UKIP in 1997. |
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| gazzer |
quote As for immigration there are certain points that are usually avoided. 1 Immigrants generally head for countries offering opportunity, work and freedom. 2 We have an ageing population and most immigrants are young. Old codgers like me need these young immigrants to look after us in our old age. 3 Dodgy employers who heartily embrace capitalism employ immigrants because: a they are cheap b most speak some English c someone else has paid for their education and training However, many employers take them on because they speak English and they cannot get anyone else. As many of these are in professional jobs, dentists, doctors etc. Really the result of us not wanting to pay taxes and the government obliging by not paying out to train sufficient professionals for our essential services. However, a study of history will show that that this has been the situation for a very long time. I mean Farage is probably descended form immigrant refugees, probably protestants running from Catholics in the 16th - 18th centuries. So this present rampage against immigrants will no doubt be as successful as all that have gone before. Also the descendants will be rampaging against future immigration. That is actually happening with UKIP. One of the Yorkshire UKIP MEPs looks to have family origins well beyond these shore. As a pro European I reckon we should get stuck in to the EU to sort out the dodgy elements and create a Great British super state. Some of what you say is spot on but until we get some more lazy brits to work and an infrastructure to meet demands. Then we could put in place a system like Australia or Canada.You know the way it works...recruit people for some jobs to benefit the country.Lets pick the worlds best. As for most speaking English, Yorkshire Councils pay over £1.5m a year for interpreters. I doubt anyone could have a problem with that common sense approach. It will be interesting to see who is against new housing in Silsden to meet the country's demand but seems to think open borders are a good thing |
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| old_miner |
Be careful when comparing the UK with countries such as Canada and Australia. Both are pretty difficult to get into physically. Australia is surrounded by oceans, and they still try. Canada has cold waters around it and the USA. Remember also that Canada, Australia and the USA were all created by emigrants from Europe. I must concur with the interpreter situation, other than life threatening situations I am not sure we should bother too much. What no one seems to address with immigration is the why. Popular myth is that it is for the benefits. Well I suppose if you are living on a bowl of rice a day our benefits look like wealth beyond belief. In reality of course they are not. Maybe we should increase overseas aid, with a lot of strings, and get everyone beyond a bowl of rice! Education and trainer is a no brainer, but everyone wants someone else to pay. We need to invest our way out of the immigration problem, and state investment means taxes. I think we need to make it a full EU problem and tackle our problems and their problems that way. A Great Britain where everyone is at much the same level and all speak the same language would have eliminated the internal immigration problem and should be wealthy enough to heat out and solve the problems causing world migrations. So beyond Greater Britain let us take of the world - why not Planet Britain - end of problem. |
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| ealteacher |
Old Miner talks a lot of sense. And I think this country is going to need a lot of talking of sense when it comes to thinking about leaving the EU. My own feeling is that it would be disastrous to leave the EU and this is based on ideas about peace and steering well clear of the kind of nationalism which could descend into fascism. It has happened before. Also at a time when there was great economic unease and when the 'other' was blamed as the culprit for economic woes. Perhaps I can rest assured because of a belief in Great British values of tolerance and respect. On the other hand, I think it is important to become informed in more than a single-issue, knee-jerk way which is what I believe Ukip to be doing and encouraging. Time for informing myself of effects on British life of immigration, starting with the fact that the most powerful country in the world was founded by immigrants. (I wish life were simpler) |
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| victor |
It's OUR Country so let's close all our borders. It's OUR County so let's close all our county boundaries. It's OUR Town so let's close all incoming roads. It's OUR Road so let's have Gated communities. I think I'll just stay at home. |
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| gazzer |
quoteOld Miner talks a lot of sense. And I think this country is going to need a lot of talking of sense when it comes to thinking about leaving the EU. My own feeling is that it would be disastrous to leave the EU and this is based on ideas about peace and steering well clear of the kind of nationalism which could descend into fascism. It has happened before. Also at a time when there was great economic unease and when the 'other' was blamed as the culprit for economic woes. Perhaps I can rest assured because of a belief in Great British values of tolerance and respect. On the other hand, I think it is important to become informed in more than a single-issue, knee-jerk way which is what I believe Ukip to be doing and encouraging. Time for informing myself of effects on British life of immigration, starting with the fact that the most powerful country in the world was founded by immigrants. (I wish life were simpler) If being in the EU was a guarantee of peace then why is Switzerland not at the forefront or even at the table. You can push people together for so long before they get fed up and want to think about going it alone. Give them a chance and let them discuss the pro's and cons leading upto a vote. There are many examples of not giving people the chance like Sudan and Ukraine. |
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| ealteacher |
Absolutely Gazzer and I reckon I am going to learn a lot if this thread continues. People should absolutely be given the chance to consider the pros and cons. Re Switzerland - correct me if I am wrong - but my limited knowledge leads me to think that they have always been left alone and had a protected status because of their function as a home for looted money. I am open to being put right on this. thanks for input |
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| ealteacher |
and Gazzer I think you are right about ukraine and sudan. people do get fed up - does that mean they make the right decisions or does it lead to bad stuff? I don't know thanks for input |
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| old_miner |
Just look at the terrain map of Switzerland and it obvious why no one bothers them. Until the country became a tourist destination and was able generate its own electricity from hydro-electric sources it was a pretty poor place. Banking and dodgy accounts is a fairly recent idea. |
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| Replies in this thread : 21 |
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events sale / wanted general have your say looking for.. skippy greengrass |
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DON'T FORGET THE SUBJECT IS >>>>>>>> Forums Home > General Forum > Why is UKIP doing so well |
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