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Replies in this thread : 33
Author |
Topic : Federal State of Europe - or UKE |
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| tolpuddle |
What would actually be wrong with the Federal State of Europe. I have read plenty of emotive stuff, but very little real arguments against it. Politically and economically it makes sense on the basis of might is right. As for the UK. We assume all this loss of sovereingty, identity etc. but surely every other state in Europe must feel the same. In practise a USE is going to be more like the USA and the USA was born from the UK, certainly not a United Europe but definitely a United Kingdom. A united Europe is going to end up taking a lot of its cues from the UK. For a start the defacto language of Europe is English - I read somewhere that the latest Greek PM actually speaks better English than Greek! While we might have fought most of them at some time or other we have also stood by most of them as well. Economically Europe is evening out. Spain is not as 'cheap' as it used to be, basically becasue the prices there are much the same as they are here. In all countries some things are cheaper than in others, and vice versa. European countries genrally have similar national education and health systems to ours. Expats living in Spain might complain about the prices but rarely about the Spanish health service! Most European pensioners are better off than those in the UK. So an equalisation of Europe will actually be better for the majority. So who is against it. Interestingly the Conservative party and the core membership of monied hooray henrys. Businesses that talk about competition, but just want it on their own terms. Basically vested interests worried that they might actually have to indulge in real capitalism, not the social state subsidised sytem they really like. In truth many in Europe would be really be worried by a keen and eager UK being pushy and pro Europe. So lets go for. Full union. A greater United Europe and bring the kingdoms together and for a 'United Kingdom' of Europe!!! |
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| shaggyNZ |
What would be wrong with a federal state ot Europe ?? How about the fact that not one of the people wno would be running it would be elected! The European parliament is toothless and is ignored by the comissioners. In the USA, state and federal legislation is signed off by ELECTED officials. Tolpuddle, can you really imagine that happening in Europe... I somehow don't think so. |
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| Bob T |
Tolpuddle ,your at it again ,another load of b****ks we dont want to come to OUR forum and read your opions |
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| alan |
Oh dear just too much to worry about  |
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| wobblemonster |
YOU ARE A MISS GUIDED FOOL, WITH STRANGE VIEWS |
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| carliol |
I know where tolpuddle is coming from, the Lisbon Treaty will take many more decisions out of our hands, look at what will happen to the City of London financial centre now that a Frenchman is in charge( well done Gordon Brown for being outmanouevred there!). It's not easy now that Lisbon is signed up, but we have to make the best of it, and accept that Europe will run more and more of what goes on. I don't like it, but our politicians have sold us down the river again. Start teaching French and German in schools from primary age....the kids are going to need them! |
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| tolpuddle |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) Where I am coming from is reading how the concept of a federal USA was created from a collection of states with different ideas. As for federal voting, what is now is now, but what is the future is the future. Things change. |
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| carliol |
The difference is that USA is one country with 50+ states, and major decisions are taken by the US government, with the states having some autonomy for local issues. They all speak the same language, and no state wants to dominate like France and Germany do. |
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| tolpuddle |
So, if Germany, or France, or anybody else wants to dominate how is it ever going to happen? So, if it is unlikely to happen because everyone wants to be top dog then why is it such a big issue to everyone? The USA worked becasue they approached it from a different way. A way that made allowances for the state differences. The present Euro way will probably end in tears becasue there are some states who fancy themselves as leader of the pack. Unless attitudes change, then it is unlikely to happen, which does not seem to stop a lot of people getting worked up about it. Socially and materially Europeans are coming together. Europe does need to have a common form of communication to suceed as a federal entity. Interestingly that is most likely to come from the state that brought northern and southern Europe together in 1066. |
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| victor |
Peter are you in BobTs gang or is the Forum open to all. |
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| Cobbydale Man |
Bob T - You do not have the right to determine who posts on this site. Does he Peter? |
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| Peter |
I've said this before but it looks like I need to repeat it... Anyone can write on this forum as long as they stick to the Terms & Conditions. If you need a reminder of what you signed up to they are here.. www.silsden.net/forum/philboard_signup.asp I do allow a certain amount of leeway but if anyone does not heed warnings I will ban them. Messages which are objectionable may get deleted without warning.  |
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| skippy |
GLAD IM THICK  europe my arris come back maggie then see who is the boss |
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| alan |
It was your lot who took us in skippy!!!!!  |
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| alan |
Just to remind everyone, the tories took us in, when labour got in they had a referendum, I voted NO! It was then called the EEC and we were told by the tories it was just an economic club......... |
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| tolpuddle |
The last decent Tory, Ted Heath, very nice man. Bit to the left of Tony Blair. Trouble was he got us the three day week - although 5 days work and production still came out; something never did add up with that!!! |
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| alan |
Didn't he say summat like let's show the miners who rules the country then get voted out? You can't use decent and tory in the same sentence |
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| tolpuddle |
I think it is important to seperate individual beleifs from the individual. I think people who follow religious beliefs are daft. However, a lot are very nice people (and a lot very nasty as well). Same goes for Tories - I might think their political opinions are daft, but again plenty are very nice people. I doubt that Ted Heath 'hated' miners. I think his childhood was in a coal mining region. |
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| alan |
Is tolpuddle the 'new' wahiba? |
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| gazzer |
Put a good spin on this then Tolpuddled www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=495269&in_page_id=2 |
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| carliol |
spot on gazzer...I referred to this in my post above, glad someone else has cottoned on to what is happening...500,000 jobs at risk, the EU has just got us by the short and curlies...well done Mr Brown and Co! We are losing the plot, everything is geared to G Brown getting personally re-elected and mistakes are being made, the EU has realised our eye is off the ball, and are stitching us up. |
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| tolpuddle |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) And why not. It is a no brainer. We used have a nice mixed economy with a good manufacturing sector, much the same as Germany and France today. Then someone reckoned that we would make more money from money so did not need all those dirty factories any more. The bean counters took control. They provided a few bribes to keep the masses in place, all those privatisations, buy your council house at a massive discount and so on. You all know what they were. Last year the chickens came home to the roost. Government bailed out the money sector far more than they ever bailed out the manufacturing sector. Now the money men are potentially finding themselves likely to suffer the same fate as manufacturing and are screaming. European manufacturing and the wealth of those countries that propose these new controls have done well. We have not so it seems to me that adopting those controls, balancing the economy so that we are not over reliant on 'moving money' will be good for us. As some of these money men control the press they are obviously getting their squeals heard. I just hope Darling and Brown stand firm against this lot. As for their bonuses, which if they do not get they will go elsewhere. Where? who on earth is going to employ a load of 'experts' who needed bailing out by the government. Dubai? Yes. let us have these nice 'European' controls ASAP to bring the 'fat cat I'm all right fu mate' brigade who want to run our economy under control. 500 000 jobs at risks. What jobs? All those people in call centres. Get this right and we get back to making things. Plenty of jobs for people making things. More likely 500 000 extra jobs. I did not realise there were so many members of the conservative party when I recently move here. With a decent Labour MP I thought this would be a nice red zone. |
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| carliol |
I think tolpuddle is "aving a larf"...get 500000 people "making things" in this country, when China and India have low cost economies geared to just that...come on! We may be able to compete in high value manufacturing, but you won't get that many jobs from it. We will lose our financial services industry at our peril, that's why Europe is trying to destroy it...let's not give them a helping hand. Tolpuddle is a small village in the Piddle valley in Dorset....is there a clue there? Is this a hoax? Do you work in a call (of nature) centre? |
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| tolpuddle |
Tolpuddle is where the farm workers who formed a union came from, and were then transported to Australia for their cheek. Tolpuddle Matyrs are famous. So we are to be the Eloi living in our financial dream world while the '3rd' world toils away as the Morlocks beneath the surface. Relying totally on financial service is fine if you believe in slavery for the masses producing the cheap goods. Trouble is they will aspire to our riches, and our financial services. We need a balanced economy just as we need a balanced diet. When anything whether boat or society becomes lop sided it topples over. Only quick buck dreamers think we can live on money alone. |
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| Fred |
What a load of twaddle and brain removed lefty thinking. |
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| carliol |
Fred....I think tolpuddle is having us on, we don't need history lessons...we need joined up government and fresh thinking. Maybe it's all a joke, I've had enough! |
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| littleknownme |
It's great to hear some facts tolpuddle, it's a shame you can't get a reasoned reply. A balanced economy is the only way for the future. We need to be as near self-sufficient as possible. Our bankers have shown that given a free reign they only have self-interest. Anyhow when is the hole in Bradford going to get sorted? Tory mis-management again. Tory government - god help us!! |
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| Fred |
littleknowme, wasn't my comment to your liking? Let's not blame the Tories for 12 years of labour mismanagement, your lot have had 12 years to sort the country out and look where we are... The country in danger of going bust, loosing our credit rating, unable to borrow money i.e. bankrupt. A federal state of Europe. They have reduced parliament to a talking shop and given power to unelected law makers of Europe.. and who voted for the president, high representative and the finance minister etc? Lots of new laws to keep us all in order Speed cameras to get a bit of money to spend on the latest U turn Making everyone a pedophile until proved otherwise by a CRB check Renaming of every department, keeps the plebs guessing More surveillance cameras than any other country, and still the crime figures go up. Sorry the crime figures go down year on year as they find a new way to count and cook the books. Education, education, education but everyone gets an A* now and the universities have to provide remedial classes because the A* are not really up to standard. Never mind they can bring the private education standard down to a state education level and then it will all be right! More houses required to house all the single parents because labour positively discriminate against marriage. More houses required because labour have lost control of our borders (to the new members of the EU and foreign immigration. I could think of lots more if I wasn't so angry about what labour has done to our country in the last 12 years. There is no one to blame for the mess we are in BUT labour. |
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| skippy |
fred the word shafted springs to mind, labour |
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| alan |
Correction skippy NEW labour |
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| carliol |
we are now back to old labour, GB has made sure of that. We seem to have forgotten that new labour, under Tony Blair, won 3 elections on the trot...funny how we forget so quickly that he made them electable again. If Iraq had not happened, we would think of him differently. |
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| alan |
No good chaps, he's on a new thread now......... |
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| carliol |
apologies.....I'll go and make a cup of tea and calm down...oh..and I'll have a sticky bun as well. I'm fed up of all this political stuff! |
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| alan |
Can't stand these long political diatribes, from either party! Save me a sticky bun I could just manage one now |
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| Replies in this thread : 33 |
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events sale / wanted general have your say looking for.. skippy greengrass |
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DON'T FORGET THE SUBJECT IS >>>>>>>> Forums Home > Have Your Say !!!! > Federal State of Europe - or UKE |
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02/12/2009 : 08:23:07 